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17 August 2017

Two Know-It-Alls debate National-Socialism's Place in the Alt Right


On 17 August 2017 at 7PM EST there is supposed to be on Youtube a "debate" about national-socialism between two Internet entities, Vox Day and Greg Johnson, neither of whom, it seems to me, can claim to be very knowledgeable about national-socialism.

One of the first things that anyone who would claim to be knowledgeable about national-socialism should know, is that there has been enormous misrepresentation and even forgery that has to be circumvented in order to arrive at a true picture of national-socialism. Neither Greg Johnson nor Vox Day seems to know this, as I shall explain.



Know-It-All Greg Johnson

A few years ago there was an essay by Johnson published on Hitler's birthday on The Occidental Observer, wherein Johnson used just one alleged quote from Adolf Hitler. It happened to be from the fraudulent Hitler-Bormann Documents

I spotted this right away and pointed out the mistake in the comments section. 

The fake quote was removed from the essay for a short time, but then reinserted. Johnson then tried to argue for the quote's authenticity by citing the authority of Dr. William Pierce. Why Johnson would cite Dr. Pierce on such a matter is a mystery to me, but that's what he did. It was a bad move, because unlike Johnson, I did not just meet Dr. Pierce once, but actually knew him and worked for him at various times over the course of several years before Johnson met him, and knew with certainty that Dr. Pierce did not regard the Hitler-Bormann Documents as authentic. National Vanguard Books did not sell that book, specifically because it was known to be a fraud. Johnson was lying.

Johnson is also no friend of national-socialism. In an essay for TOO wherein he was pushing his brandname, "North American New Right," he defined his "new right" as distinct and utterly separate from the stinky poopoo of Fascism and National-Socialism, and even from William Pierce, all of which were tainted by association with a Holocaust that Greg Johnson dares not question and advises others not to question, because questioning the Holocaust is just heartless and mean, Johnson says (G. Johnson, "Dealing with the Holocaust," TOO, 20 July 2012).

And now Greg Johnson is going to speak on national-socialism's behalf? If this were a legal matter I would ask for a different attorney, because this one seems none too fond of his client.



Know-It-All Vox Day

I am almost completely unfamiliar with Vox Day although I have heard the name a few times. From the little that I have seen, he seems to be a know-it-all more or less of the libertarian variety. He is on his moral high horse against "socialism," and is determined that national-socialism should be excluded from the Alt Right because, as socialism, it is leftist and therefore not rightist.

As a national-socialist, I have stated in the past that I do not call myself Alt Right and do not care about participating in the fad of being called Alt Right. National-Socialism is something fairly definite, whereas the Alt Right is something nebulous.

Let us bear in mind that the Alt Right brand more or less belongs to Richard Spencer, who once famously declared, in response to libertarian hectoring: "Big government forever!" Certainly any pro-White creed that embraces "Big government forever!" is big enough for national-socialism.

In that light, the real argument would seem to be about whether Richard Spencer's Alt Right is correctly named. Instead, these two guys, Vox Day and Greg Johnson, will argue about whether national-socialism can be part of the Alt Right.

Vox Day's argument is that, because what is now -- since World War II -- called the right is always for less government and against socialism, it is impossible to be rightist and at the same time in any way socialist.

I spent a good part of a recent What Would Hitler Do? segment explaining that before the Second World War conservatism and socialism were not considered antithetical. There was in Britain, since the 1840s, the concept of Tory Socialism, which is another way of saying conservative socialism. It was Bismarck, with the backing of the Conservatives, who established the welfare state in Germany. There is a long history of conservative, or one might say right-wing, socialism.

This was possible because the older conservatism was not about free markets and individual liberty.  Conservatism was about preserving traditions and morality and, eventually, about preserving the race.

It is only when liberalism calls itself conservatism, as has happened since the Second World War, that conservative socialism no longer seems possible.

Vox Day tries to demonstrate that national-socialism is no different than any other socialism, and presents on his blog seven alleged quotes that are supposed to prove this. Vox Day says that they are "direct quotes from Mr. Hitler himself."

In fact, only two of the seven statements are direct quotes from Hitler.

The first and third quotes are from the fraudster Hermann Rauschning, p. 131 and p. 186 of his book The Voice of Destruction.

The fifth quote is from Ernst Roehm, from the period (1934) when Roehm was complaining that the National-Socialist Revolution had turned out to be less socialist than he had hoped. (Wikiquotes mistakenly attributes the statement to Hitler, alleging Churchill's The Gathering Storm, p. 87, as the source. If you carefully read what Churchill wrote, you can see that he in fact attributes the statement to Roehm.)

The second and fourth quotes are from the memoir of Otto Wagener, supposedly written in 1946 based on recollections of conversations from 13+ years earlier. Postwar memoirs of the vanquished are in general dubious, but a memoir written after so many years had passed is definitely not trustworthy. Furthermore, this memoir, for whatever reason, was not published until 1978 -- seven years after Wagener's death -- which raises a question of authenticity.

I personally do not believe that Wagener's memoir, or the alleged memoir attributed to Wagener, is accurate. The statement that has Hitler seeming to support "international socialism" as a final consequence of the spread of national-socialism is not consistent with other statements. Hitler is recorded in the Table Talk as having said that national-socialism was not for export, because if other nations adopted national-socialism they would become stronger in competition against Germany. 

I am firmly opposed to any attempt to export National-Socialism. If other countries are determined to preserve their democratic systems and thus rush to their ruin, so much the better for us. [Table Talk, entry for 20 May 1942]

It should be plain that Hitler's attitude toward foreign relations as a great competition for survival did not favor such a concept as "international socialism," and that the words attributed to Hitler in the alleged Wagener memoir do not sound like Hitler.

And even if Wagener did write it, a memoir written so many years later cannot be considered reliably as "direct quotes from Mr. Hitler himself."

Only the sixth and seventh sentences in Vox Day's list are "direct quotes from Mr. Hitler himself." The sixth is from a speech that Hitler gave for the beginning of the Winter Aid Program (5 October 1937), and the seventh is from Hitler's address to the German people upon commencement of Operation Barbarossa (22 June 1941). In that speech, when Hitler refers to the "new socialist order in Germany," it is by contrast with the Soviet system, which Hitler characterizes as "chaos, misery, and starvation." The speech emphasized that the Soviet and National-Socialist systems were different, not that they were the same, as Vox Day would have it.

The conclusion is, Vox Day doesn't know what the hell he's on about.

Neither of these guys, neither Greg Johnson nor Vox Day, is well equipped to discuss national-socialism and its relationship to the Alt Right.

That is a moot point anyway. 

The real question is whether libertarianism (what used to be called liberalism) can save the White race. I maintain that it obviously cannot and will not, because unlike national-socialism it was never designed for that.

3 comments:

Signifier said...

CORRECTION TO MY POSTED COMMENT AT 12:50 PM TODAY

Just to summarize and quote from Hadding Scott's analysis of who said what on Vox Populi:


(1)
• It is not Germany that will turn Bolshevist but Bolshevism that will become a sort of National Socialism. Besides, there is more that binds us to Bolshevism than separates us from it…. I have always made allowance for this circumstance, and given orders that former Communists are to be admitted to the party at once. The petit bourgeois Social-Democrat and the trade union boss will never make a National Socialist, but the Communist always will.

—from fraudster Hermann Rauschning, p. 131 of his book The Voice of Destruction.

(2)
• We National Socialists wish precisely to attract all socialists, even the Communists; we wish to win them over from their international camp to the national one.

---from the memoir of Otto Wagener, supposedly written in 1946 based on recollections of conversations from 13+ years earlier

(3)

• I have learned a great deal from Marxism as I do not hesitate to admit… The difference between them and myself is that I have really put into practice what these peddlers and pen pushers have timidly begun. The whole of National Socialism is based on it… National Socialism is what Marxism might have been if it could have broken its absurd and artificial ties with a democratic order.

—from fraudster Hermann Rauschning, p. 186 of his book The Voice of Destruction.

(4)

• After all, that’s exactly why we call ourselves National Socialists! We want to start by implementing socialism in our nation among our Volk! It is not until the individual nations are socialist that they can address themselves to international socialism.

--from the memoir of Otto Wagener, supposedly written in 1946 based on recollections of conversations from 13+ years earlier

(5)
• The Revolution we have made is not a national revolution, but a National-Socialist Revolution. We would even underline this last word, "Socialist.”

—from Ernst Roehm, who was distinctly to the left of Hitler and came into conflict with Hitler because of it.

(6)
• There is a difference between the theoretical knowledge of socialism and the practical life of socialism. People are not born socialists, but must first be taught how to become them.

—from a speech that Hitler gave for the beginning of the Winter Aid Program (5 October 1937)


(7) • I, on the other hand, have tried for two decades to build a new socialist order in Germany, with a minimum of interference and without harming our productive capacity.

— from Hitler's address to the German people upon commencement of Operation Barbarossa (22 June 1941). In that speech, when Hitler refers to the "new socialist order in Germany," it is by contrast with the Soviet system, which Hitler characterizes as "chaos, misery, and starvation." The speech emphasizes that the Soviet and National-Socialist systems were different, not that they were the same, as Vox Day would have it.

Thank you, Hadding for your tremendous knowledge and historical understanding of National Socialism. I'm glad to know too a bit of your personal history, i.e., that you knew and talked with William Pierce.

Even LA hipster Libertarian LAWereWolf, who is a libertarian, doesn't think Libertarianism is capable of saving the white race: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQpYHzLfFsg

Dionysus said...

The Alt-right seems to be full of anti-fascist and zionist forces. The latest addition being Daniel Friberg, who has ties to über-zionist Patrik Brinkmann (a man central in the zionist infiltration of nationalist parties in Europe).

Most Americans don't seem to be quite aware of this danger.

Hadding said...

Greg Johnson has in the past given indications of his sympathy for Zionism. http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com/2014/09/zionist-rhetoric-infiltrates-white.html