JIM: Hi everyone, Jim Rizoli here. And I have another special guest for the show today, it’s Hadding Scott. And we’re going to be discussing a little bit about his life and some of the things that he’s been doing. So let’s get started.
Hadding, again, welcome to the program.
HADDING: Well, hello!
JIM: First of all, the only, really, thing I know about you is just in e-mails, I see coming here and there. And the biggest thing I know about you, I should say, is because my brother Joe, he was very much involved with listening to your discussion about Henry Ford with Carolyn Yeager.
HADDING: Oh yeah, The International Jew Study Hour.
JIM: Right, right! So, maybe you could tell us a little bit-- I’ll tell you what, before we get into that, why don’t we, you know, find out a little bit about you? So, what would you consider yourself?
HADDING: Well, I really hate to see somebody prevail through lying. This is something that you could notice in various things that I’ve done. But, you know, I really came to Holocaust Revisionism through other things.
HADDING: My origin has a lot to do with it. My parents were about a generation older than [the parents of] other people my age. I was born in the 1960s. My parents were born in the 1920s. And my mother was raised by her grandparents, who were born not very long after the War Between the States. So, I got a very old perspective from my mother. And my mother always used to say, “Don’t believe everything that you hear!” And she gave me another perspective, when I brought home what I had learned about Abraham Lincoln in school. And she also told me that all the stories about the cruelty of slavery in the South were not true, that this was exaggeration, and that the slaves generally were treated very well, and that the war was not about slavery. Right?
So this really is a nice analogy to Holocaust revisionism. And I grew up with that.
Jim: Are you a teacher or anything like that? Are you an academic person?
HADDING: I have been a teacher.
HADDING: Not presently.
JIM: Okay. Well, basically you, you know, you’re like me. I mean, I, you know, I got into this, because I didn’t like lying! [laughing] So, you know, I didn’t like people saying things that were just completely absurd and they’re lying and I’m trying to figure out what, why are they saying this if it’s not true? So I could understand that. So, what were the first things that you took up within your travel through life, here? What were some of the topics? I mean, you mentioned Abraham Lincoln. But I mean, what other things did you do?
HADDING: Well, I can tell you how I arrived at Holocaust Revisionism, all right? From this dissident perspective that was inherent in my parentage and my upbringing, I was already accustomed to the idea that much of what we hear in mass media is not true. I grew up with that! Right? But I had other things still that I needed to learn. I needed to learn that there was lying also about the Second World War, because my parents didn’t really have any inkling of that. My mother was very well informed about how there was lying against the South, but not about lying against Germany. But it was not a big leap to think that there might have been lying against Germany.
But a lot of this depends on what you think about the character of the Jews. Right?
I grew up with this idea that the Jews were pretty much like everybody else, except they had a different religion, and the poor, innocent Jews were victimized by some mass-psychosis that swept over Germany. And you have to learn about the Jews to understand that this is not really how it was. And the way that I became acquainted with the real character of the Jews was by listening to the Larry King Radio Show on the Mutual Broadcasting Network, beginning around 1978 and into the early 1980s.
I had actually dropped out of high school at a very early age, actually. I got away with that. And I would stay up all night listening to Larry King radio show. And this was a big eye opener for me, because Larry King, from my perspective, was insane! [Jim laughing] This was a man who professed to believe in racial equality, whereas I as a Southerner, knew firsthand that this was clearly not true! And I noticed other things about Larry King. Well for one thing he made no secret of being a Jew. He talked about it often and he would have guests on his show all the time that he identified as Jews and many of them were buddies from the old neighborhood in Brooklyn. You could learn from listening to the Larry King Show the character of New York City Jews and the fact that Jews were very prevalent in mass-media and had no shame about using their positions in mass-media to promote specifically Jewish interests. And Larry King was also extremely unfair to callers that disagreed with him on these particular issues, like race, and -- well, especially race. If you disagreed with racial equality, he was very likely to badger you until you became incoherent and then hang up on you and then play the Looney Tunes thing. Right? [Mimicking the Looney Tunes music]
This was extremely unfair and this was really how I learned about Jews. I mean, it’s sort of like seeing the Platonic form of something, you know, you see the platonic form and then you see how that form exists in an imperfect form in the others. So, Larry King was sort of the concentrated Jew, and I saw that there was a little bit of Larry King in a lot of Jews!
JIM: Did you ever call in to the show?
HADDING: I did a couple of times.
JIM: And what happened?
HADDING: Uh, it was a long time ago (pauses to think). I managed to get some stuff out and got hung up on.
JIM: [Laughing] Yeah! So that was your bad introduction to Jews. And he’s such a wackjob anyway, that guy!
HADDING: The thing about Larry King is, he’s completely different on television, compared to how he was on the radio.
HADDING: On television he’s very toned down. You don’t get the shameless promotion of Jewish interests on his television shows, that he used to do on the radio.
JIM: Did he ever talk about the Holocaust or anything like that?
HADDING: I’m sure that he had Simon Wiesenthal on there, and Eli Wiesel. But at that point I wasn’t really suspicious about the Holocaust. I believed in the Holocaust until-- I started to have some questions about it in the late nineteen eighties. Alright? Before I started to question the Holocaust, I had become interested in psychology. And I read a lot of psychology books, and one of the books that I read was by a Scottish psychiatrist named R. D. Laing.
And R. D. Laing's message was that -- his message is really, he really goes too far, but there's still something there that's valuable, which is: when somebody is labeled as crazy, you should really try to understand what's going on with them, and try to understand their perspective, and they may not really be crazy. They might actually have their own side of the story, and these people around them may just not want to hear their side of the story. You should try to understand this person that's been labeled, right?
Now, the most obvious person that would need to be given this indulgence, to try to understand what's really going on with him because he's been so labeled and demonized, obviously, Adolf Hitler and the National-Socialists.
So, because of R. D. Laing I was open to the idea that Adolf Hitler and the National-Socialists might have their own story, that what they did does not seem crazy, right? What they supposedly did, right? So, before I arrived at questioning the Holocaust, I arrived at the position of trying to understand why this happened. What did the Jews do to bring this on them? Right? That seemed to me a logical question. Now, I did know from having been exposed to Larry King and also some other experiences with Jews, that it was entirely possible that there was exaggeration and distortion. But I still believed that the Holocaust must have had at least some truth in it.
It was not until about 1992 that I was convinced that the Holocaust was false. I had started listening to shortwave and the alternative media on short wave. Like Radio Free America with Tom Valentine, and I stumbled across also the American Dissident Voices radio program, which was usually Kevin Strom, but once a month Dr Pierce would make a broadcast. And I wrote to them because I was very interested in the fact that the way Dr Pierce talked about racial problems was very similar to the way that I talked about these things. And he presented a rational discussion of these things.
And I was certainly already open to the-- I knew from listening to Larry King that Jews had a lot to do with these problems, that Jews in the media push for racial equality! And I ordered books and magazines from them, and one of the magazines that I ordered was an issue of National Vanguard magazine from 1989 that had Adolf Hitler on the cover. It was the one-hundredth-birthday issue of Adolf Hitler issue of National Vanguard magazine. And that magazine had an article in it called, “The Evidence of the Prussian Blue.”
I had heard and read before then about the Zündel Trials. I heard Ernst Zündel interviewed on Radio Free America with Tom Valentine. I had read an article by Professor Robert Faurisson that somebody had reproduced. But, I wasn’t sure about how much of what they said I should believe! I didn’t know who Robert Faurisson was. He could have been a crazy man, for all I knew. He said that there was no chemical residue in the gas chambers and there should have been chemical residue in the gas chambers. Well, that’s a valid argument, but-- It seems to be a valid argument, but I don’t know: who is Robert Faurisson, what is his expertise? How can I be sure that there really should have been residue there? He just says that there should have been. How do I know it?
But with Dr Pierce, when I read it from him, I believed it, because he had a lot of credibility with me, because he spoke my language. I mean, in terms of how he talked about race and racial issues. And he also was a physicist, you know, he would know things like whether there should be cyanide residue in the bricks. You couldn’t fool him on these things and I knew he was a man who consistently told the truth. Therefore, when I read this very concise presentation about the Leuchter Report, from Dr Pierce, I was convinced. And he presented it very concisely. He talked about the blue staining in the bricks which was in the delousing chamber at Birkenau but not in Krema I in Auschwitz [I] nor in any other Kremas. And this convinced me!
JIM: So that was a good awakening for you, to see that. Now how did you pursue it after that?
HADDING: I didn’t do very much with Holocaust revisionism after that until about 2002, 2003. During the propaganda for, war against Iraq. Because it was very clear at that time that Hitler comparisons and invocation of the Holocaust played a very large role in this anti-Saddam Hussein propaganda. Saddam Hussein was supposed to have gassed the Kurdish, the Kurds, he’s supposed to have gassed Kurds, Kurdish civilians, for no reason! It was just an unprovoked gassing of these poor Kurdish civilians that Saddam Hussein was supposed to have done for no reason. And this was supposed to make Saddam Hussein like Hitler. And he wanted to conquer the whole world like Hitler, right? So they were all these comparisons of Saddam Hussein to the legend, which I knew to be false by that point, about Adolf Hitler.
And I wrote some articles, in early 2003, before the US invasion, in which I debunked the propaganda about Saddam Hussein. It was not true that Saddam Hussein had gassed any Kurdish civilians! This was a story that originally had been put out by the Iranians. Because what happened was that the Iranians were attacking this town in northern Iraq called Halabjah, and there was nobody in the town, but then some Kurdish rebels went into Halabjah and the Iranians thought they were Iraqi soldiers and shelled them with cyanide canisters. And the Iranians accidentally killed these Kurds in Halabjah. What happened after the Iranians went into Halabjah and saw the dead Kurds, is they blamed it on the Iraqis. And they called in journalists to see what had happened there and they said, “Look what the Iraqis did!”
And, If you read the early reports about this incident you can tell that they’re somewhat skeptical. The reports are somewhat skeptical; it's: "The Iranians say." The Iranians said there were five thousand dead Kurds killed by the Iraqis. The reporters said that they saw a hundred or so bodies. This is the kind of initial reporting on Halabjah.
But what happened was, after Iraq came out of the war much stronger, as a sort of a regional superpower, Jews started in with their anti-Saddam Hussein propaganda. It happened on September 1, 1988.* There was an article, a news article and also an editorial by William Safire in the New York Times, in which William Safire mentioned that this cyanide gas which had been used to kill the Kurds at Halabjah was the same gas used at Auschwitz! George Herbert Walker Bush also made an explicit Hitler comparison. Compared Saddam Hussein to Hitler. And Saddam Hussein also returned the comparison, comparing George Herbert Walker Bush to Hitler! Everybody that you want to motivate people to attack apparently is just like Hitler.
So we had this war in 1991. I’m perfectly willing to believe the Iraqi side of the story, that the Kuwaitis provoked the Iraqis, and that April Glaspie told them that the USA wouldn’t care if they invaded. And, also I found out the CIA had made a fake satellite photograph showing Iraqi tanks on the Saudi border to try to get the Saudis to support the whole project of invading Iraq, attacking Iraq. Which echoes, of course, the fake CIA photograph that was published in Life magazine, a fake aerial photograph of Auschwitz that was published in Life magazine, I think in 1977. That showed doctored photographs of Auschwitz with people lined up for the gas chamber.
JIM: I’d like to see that picture.
HADDING: Yeah! Well that’s online. You just do a search, Life magazine, Auschwitz. You’ll find it. Actually, it had people standing on the corner of buildings in these lines that were lined up to go into the gas chamber. It was a kind of a sloppy alteration. And they also put in a wall to hide people, so that they could pretend that people going to be gassed were not seen by people outside of the camp. There was no such wall.
HADDING: So anyway, this anti-Saddam Hussein propaganda about the gassed Kurds went on for 15 years, until we had the invasion and overthrow of the Iraqi government in 2003. Really, the gassed Kurds story was the basis of the whole propaganda, because -- this is an observation that I’ve made about how propaganda works -- most people are so overwhelmed with information that they can’t bother to check everything that they hear, or even very much of what they hear. So what people will do, is, they will take a few bits of information that they’ve heard and that they believe, and they’ll construct a picture based on assumptions. So basically they try to see a pattern and fill out a picture based on that. In Gestalt psychology this is called reification. Where you have a few hints about what a shape might be and you can imagine that the shape is there, that’s called reification. It literally means: making the thing, thing-making.
So this tendency of people to fill out their knowledge-gaps with imagination is exploited in propaganda. And the biggest way that they do this is by misinforming people about somebody’s character. Once it was spread that Saddam Hussein had gassed the poor Kurds and had done it with no cause, people would believe that he could do anything! Obviously, this was a crazy man, a man who might very well have been involved in the 9-11 attacks! You couldn’t really convince people that he wasn’t involved in the 9-11 attacks, because that would that would require checking evidence, and most people will never do that. But it fit; if people implied that he might have been involved in the 9/-11 attacks they were very ready to believe it, because of what they had been told about Saddam Hussein’s character.
And this is something that has to be addressed also in regard to the Holocaust.
One thing that a lot of people in Revisionism seem to do, is, they seem to focus on these details about gas chambers and crematoria and they don’t really look at questions like, What kinds of people were these that are accused of doing these things? and, What is the character of the people making the accusations? That’s extremely important!
Now, since 9-11, and actually since the late 1970s when people started becoming critical of the state of Israel, but especially since 9-11, there’s a lot less trust of Jews, because a lot of people noticed after 9-11 that there was a lot of dishonesty. I just had a conversation yesterday with a leftist. I asked him privately if he believed in the Holocaust. And he said he wasn’t sure, but he doesn’t trust Jews. This guy’s a leftist! He says he doesn’t trust Jews! Right? Because he doesn’t trust Jews, he’s open to the possibility that the Holocaust could be a big lie. Right? That’s very important! And this is something that has to be addressed. If you’re trying to say that there was no Holocaust, while maintaining that, oh yes, the Nazis, they were these horrible people, you’re not going to be very convincing.
JIM: That was a big thing for you, to understand how a lie could be propagated upon us and not be true, and I understand that too. And I do I do believe you, what you say there about the psychology of this all too. There’s a lot more involved in that, that a lot of people don’t get into. I mean, I don’t get into it, because it’s hard to deal with that aspect of it, unless you show pictures [laughing] ., you know, what I mean? I mean, you know, people, you could talk psychology all you wanted but it seems like it only resonates with a certain type of people, the psychology aspect of it. I mean, I think it’s a good aspect of it. Just like, what’s her name? Elizabeth Loftus. Is that her name? She’s the one that talks about the false memory syndrome. Have you ever hear of her?
HADDING: Oh yeah.
JIM: So I mean, she was saying--
HADDING: I’ve heard of False Memory Syndrome.
Jim: Yeah. Well anyway, that’s, I think that’s who she is. And she’s the one that, you know, she went at it from that aspect. But she didn’t get into the Holocaust. She just gets into it from other people in life, but being a Jew, she didn’t want to deal with that topic of the Holocaust, because obviously, you know, she belongs to the tribe, and that’s not going to be too good for her. So that’s why she never, … But that is an interesting topic if you ever wanted to find out about her. I think it’s Elizabeth Loftus.
HADDING: Well I’ll tell you another psychologist who wrote something that casts a lot of doubt on the Holocaust is Leon Festinger. He wrote A Theory of Cognitive Dissonance. This was published in 1957. And you really have to wonder what Festinger had in mind, because in one section of the book he talks about Japanese interned in the United States. And he points out that many of these Japanese really were not loyal to the United States, and they had a bad conscience. And because they had a bad conscience they were ready to believe that terrible things were being done to them. They were inclined to believe that terrible things were being done to them in the camps, because they had a bad conscience. And since there wasn't any overt sign of anything cruel being done to them, they imagined that terrible things must be happening secretly. To try to make everything consistent with how they felt, they imagined that Japanese were being secretly killed in these American internment camps. It's irresistible to make the analogy to Jews hearing rumors in Auschwitz or someplace like that. If they had a bad conscience, if they really hated the Germans, if they were Communists, and had bad intentions, and had been locked up in this camp, but were being treated way better than they expected, or way better than seemed justified, they would be disposed to believe the same kind of rumor that these Japanese interned in these American camps believed. They had this rumor that they were being secretly killed and it was the same rumor that the Jews had.
JIM: Now let me ask you this, about your relationship with Carolyn Yeager doing that real, you know, I guess it went on for what, months? Your thing about Henry Ford.
HADDING: Yeah, it was 50-something chapters.
JIM: Wow! So how long did that go on for?
HADDING: It was about a year, I guess.
JIM: Yeah, the reason I know about that, is, my brother Joe, he takes the mp3s and he listens to them when he drive. So he told me all about it, and it’s a great way of understanding, or actually getting the book in without reading it, you know. Because sometimes people, they can’t read. And I do too. When I get on the plane I take mp3s and listen to them as I fly.
You know, right now I’m listening to The Myth of German Villainy. Are you familiar with that book?
HADDING: No. Who wrote that?
JIM: Oh, my goodness! Ben Bradberry. You have to get that book! If you want to understand World War Two, and prior to World War Two, World War One, and even prior to that from the 1850s on, what happened with Germany and the whole ten yards, you have to read that book, because you’ll get the best education on what really happened. And I think of all the books I’ve ever read, that probably has been the best one.
I interviewed him actually, Ben Bradberry. You could probably do a search for it on You Tube “Ben Bradberry Jim Rizoli interview” But he’s been interviewed by Red Ice and Rense and all these other people, too. So he’s a phenomenal writer and the book, … I don’t even know how he wrote his book. There’s so much in this book. It’s like, how does anybody get into so much information and put it into a book? I just can’t even comprehend it. But he did it. So, yeah, if you ever get a chance definitely read that. I actually have it all online as an mp3 that I downloaded on the site, the archive site [https://archive.org/details/MRTAPMAN_gmail_MGV] that people can download it and listen to it, like I’m listening to it. But it’s like, how many hours, my goodness, I think it’s fourteen hours just audio. So it’s pretty long. But, I do recommend that.
But anyway, getting back to Carol Yeager. Have you done any more stuff with her, or what?
HADDING: She’s not doing very much these days. She just posts articles on our blog, occasionally. She has this website called, January 27 [http: //jan27.org], you know, the “Holocaust” Revisionist Commemoration on International “Holocaust” Remembrance Day. I just wrote an essay for that.
JIM: Yeah, I saw that. It’s not Jan27.org is it? Is that it? Oh, that’s her site, then Okay, all right
JIM: Right. That’s a real good site there. So she basically, she hasn’t been doing much with, you know, online interviews and stuff anymore?
HADDING: I haven’t heard her do an interview in months.
JIM: Oh, Okay, yeah. I mean, I know I was on her show some years ago. But I haven’t really heard much about her since, you know.
What do you think about-- Here’s something that we’ve been discussing here, Diane and I. We’ve been discussing what’s happening in the revisionist movement. A lot of people, well not a lot, but some pretty high ranking people in the movement are kind of recanting their views now, like for instance Eric Hunt. You know, what do you think about what’s going on there?
HADDING: Well, Eric Hunt, I don’t know if he’s really “high ranking.” He’s got notoriety because he makes videos in which, I mean, he’s prominent because he makes videos....
HADDING: Honestly I don't pay a lot of attention to what other people do, but I'm sure mostly in his videos he summarizes other people’s findings.
HADDING: So, I don't have a lot to say about Eric Hunt, but I did have an exchange with him a few weeks ago, and ... apparently he had an argument ... with David Cole, and apparently he felt badly about his performance in the argument with Cole, and he felt he had been defeated, I guess. He said, “We really need to prove that those Jews weren’t killed in the Action Reinhardt Camps!” Well, wait a second. The burden of proof is on the accuser, you know. That’s one of the reasons why I wrote this essay called, “Semi-revisionism is Dead” [https://jan27.org/semi-revisionism-is-dead] .
JIM: Yeah, I read it and it was excellent. I thought it was very good, but I think, … You know what’s happening with this conversation, OK, what I’m noticing anyway, is these, … I call them the Holo-hucksters and what they do is they turn the conversation on us, to prove something that didn’t happen!
HADDING: To prove it didn’t happen!
JIM: I mean, it’s like, how do you do that!? How do I prove something didn’t happen!? And their biggest thing is [laughing] if you ever get in the conversation is, “Where did the Jews go if they weren’t executed?” and I’m saying to myself, “Who cares? I don’t care where they went!” they weren’t killed, that’s all I care about, you know. So that’s my, you know, my take on that. But, you know, now he in his last article I just saw, he writes all about, you know, the Reinhardt Camps and that people were killed in those camps, because, you know, “Where did they go if they weren't killed?” And the thing that really bothers me is they make all these assumptions that, you know, the Jews had to go somewhere if they weren’t killed, but they forget all the other information showing how ridiculous the hoax is!
HADDING: That’s right.
JIM: I mean, I don’t get it! I don’t understand how this guy can even look at himself in the mirror and think, “Well gee! Let’s talk about those Reinhardt Camps and, you know, find out where they get all that wood?” You know, how they do all this, you know, those, … How they burnt all these bodies just with lighting a match to a body and the whole body just incinerates, you know, poof! and the whole pile goes up [laughing] just, you know, just like that! Yeah, I don’t know. I just get so aggravated when I hear it.
But then, you know, I hear David Irving, he’s kind of capitulated not??? . Mark Weber, you know, he’s the same way, you know, he basically says, “While I think that millions of Jews were killed, …” but he doesn’t get into how it happened. He just said it happened.
HADDING: Well, I thought you humiliated Mark Weber by asking him, “How were they killed?” and he couldn’t answer that.
JIM: I mean, how do these guys show their face!? I mean, how do you, how do you make, … I mean, you know, I use a lot of IHR material, you know, the old stuff, and, you know, I’m always using it and then I talk to a guy that can’t even give me two facts that show that it happened! And that, you know, David Cole is the same way, you know. So yeah you got David Irving, David Cole and obviously, you know, Mark Weber and now we get Eric Hunt. You know, who’s next? You know, that goes, …
HADDING: Irving, Weber and Cole all have different motives. David Irving, he wants to have his career back, right. I don’t think he’s going to get it, but that seems to be, … I mean, that’s what somebody opined, somebody very well informed, and prominent, and famous, opined to me in 1996 when the Goebbels: Mastermind of the Third Reich book came out: David Irving wants his career back. So that is why David Irving is espousing this Semi-Revisionism the continues the demonization of ... Himmler and Goebbels. But it’s really a reversion to the position that he had in the 1970s. That was always his position. He constructed this drama where Hitler was doing good things and he had these evil men around him that were harming Jews behind his back. This is the kind of drama that David Irving has constructed. And he’s really just gone back to that.
Mark Weber has a different motive. I think he just wants to avoid Holocaust Revisionism and not discuss it to the extent that he can avoid it.
In the case of David Cole, he got involved in Holocaust revisionism only after the 1988 False News Trial when the Leuchter Report appeared and Leuchter testified and David Irving testified on behalf of Ernst Zundel, and the Holocaust industry, in general, was in retreat at that point. And you could see this for example in Yehuda Bauer, his letter to The New York Times. An article about Yehuda Bauer [in] The New York Times followed by a letter from Yehuda Bauer, talking about the need to lower the death toll at Auschwitz, "because those neo Nazi holocaust deniers, they can count, you know!” They realized that they were under a lot of scrutiny and criticism and that they needed to make revisions themselves to try to save their holy myth. And this is when David got involved! By his own account it was 1989 when he got involved. And the first time that the world heard anything about David Cole wasn’t until 1992 -- David Cole as a Holocaust Revisionist.
There was this period when Holocaust revisionism appeared to be this great chariot leading to victory, right? And, you know, that’s what David Irving clearly believed in 1988. He believed that Revisionism would prevail within, he said, five to ten years. And then the history books would be rewritten. Well it didn’t turn out that way.
HADDING: But during that time David Cole got involved, and he endorsed the findings to the Leuchter Report. And he made this video at Auschwitz, where he basically duplicated what other revisionists had already done. There’s really no new information, I don’t think, in Cole’s Auschwitz video. It is very well done, you know, it has a nice tempo to it and has good audio and it’s watchable. All right? But David Cole was basically just putting a Jewish face on what others had already discovered.
HADDING: That’s what he was doing. It’s jewish damage control!
Jim: Right. I know Mark Weber, you know, I don’t know, maybe, you know, this, or not. I don’t know, but he inherited a lot of money, you know, in a settlement he got, you know, he actually inherited like, for the IHR.
JIM: Yeah and all that. He got several million dollars out of that. I mean, did, you know, that?
HADDING: Well, I knew that there was this woman, I think, left a lot of money to the IHR....
JIM: Yes, she was part, …
HADDING: ... in the 1990s, and Carto had embezzled it and …
JIM: Yeah, there’s a whole story there. But the bottom line was, the end result was, he inherited seven, I think seven and a half million dollars that went to IHR and that’s the reason why you don’t hear Mark Weber saying anything anymore. Because he’s got so much money that he’s just sitting on it and just waiting to retire and live happily ever after. So, and he’s not doing anything! No new books, no new writings, nothing! Because he’s pretty well set for life, now. I mean, that’s what I get out of it.
HADDING: Well, from what I see apparently he’s perfectly happy to travel and give a speech against "the Zionist-Jewish power."
HADDING: He’s apparently happy to talks about the Palestinians, but he doesn’t want to talk about the Holocaust.
JIM: Right. Well, that’s the point, you know, why, because he’s still, he’s still reaping money. He’s getting money that’s coming in from people that still donate to his cause and, you know, he, like I said, he doesn’t want to upset the apple cart with the, you know, maybe some of the jews even contribute to his cause that want him to keep quiet, you know, what I mean? [laughing].
HADDING: Who knows?
JIM: So I think, oh yes, I think, you know, I think that’s part of the issue there with him. But that’s sad because, you know, Germar Rudolf, he wrote a really good article about that. About what happened with all that. I just read that, I think the other day, you know, the whole relationship about revisionism and how money corrupts. And it sure has, because it keeps revisionism from doing more. See, because, you know, if they have a lot of money they don’t have to do anything. And Germar, I think Germar out of all the Revisionists, he’s the one I think is the top one now, you know, that’s really doing something and, you know, trying to make this work. Germar. I mean, he’s, that’s my opinion anyway, you know. I don’t know any other one that’s that’s doing anything as much as Germar.
HADDING: Oh sure. Faurisson some years ago referred to the amazing energy of Germar Rudolf, or something to that effect.
JIM: Yes, it’s phenomenal what he’s doing. And ... we went down to Pennsylvania and interviewed Germar and he was really a good man. I really like him and I just hope he can, … I mean, what really bothers me is you get these inheritances that come in to these organizations and you think the IHR would throw some money his way, you know, because of all the work that Germar has done, you know. But no, he doesn’t get anything from anybody. You know, he’s just poking along. It’s just sad! I hate to see that happen but it’s happening, you know. Anyway, but that’s, …
HADDING: Well, I don’t think-- I just want to clarify. I don’t think that receiving money is what’s wrong with Mark Weber. Alright? Mark Weber -- I mean, this is according to Faurisson’s account -- Mark Weber is a weak man! He’s a weak man. He’s not very brave. When they were in, I think, in Germany and police had detained Ernst Zundel. They were going to have, … I don’t remember the story now, but they were in Germany and they were in danger of being arrested and Mark Weber’s teeth were chattering!
HADDING: But, you know, Mark Weber he’s not a -- just look at him! -- he does not convey strength.
JIM: Yeah, he at that point that you are talking about, I’m going to use a term that, there’s no other way I could use it any differently, … He was ready to shit his pants! OK! Because [laughing] he was so afraid of getting arrested and that’s what happened with him. So yeah. But, you know, I look at Fred Leuchter and, you know, hey Fred, you know, he took it. I mean, he, you know, he was going to go to jail too and he hung in there. He eventually got out of there which was the smartest thing to do too. But if he goes back there, they’re going to put him in jail [laughing] So, you know, Fred hung in there and he’s, you know, he’s not going back on any of his views about how things were done in the, you know, the Leuchter Report and all that. And he suffered more than anybody, you know. So, you know, when I see these people talking about suffering like Eric Hunt, you know, my whole life has been topsy turvy by this and that. I just say, please!
HADDING: So you think that’s why he’s backing away from this?
JIM: Well, that’s what I think. I think even Germar said that too. But you got to understand too with David Cole, you know, they threatened David Cole. They had a hit on him, to kill him. You know, he was supposed to, he was going to be killed.
HADDING: Yeah, it’s an interesting thing, they didn’t kill him, did they?
JIM: No, no, I know, yeah, because he talked to, what was his name?
JIM: Okay, okay. Irv Rubin, at the time anyway. He went to jail. He actually end up going to jail, but he actually end up talking to him and as far as I understand, the story what Cole said, he ended up paying him money or something, not to do anything to him. That’s the story that I heard. I thought I heard from Cole, when I was listening to one of Cole’s audios, videos, like we are doing now. So, the point is it seems like a lot of these people might have been threatened, you know, I can understand that would cause a problem with you, but, you know, we’ve all suffered. I mean, I lost a business, because of the Jews. So I mean, that’s life. You just get on and, you know, I know I didn’t stop. I actually got more, I got more involved with it. I didn’t get less involved in it, because now I have the time to put to it! You know, that’s that’s what I feel is important, you know, use your time wisely. And I think that’s what we all have to do you know.
HADDING: Well Irv Rubin has been dead for years now. I don’t think that Irv Rubin is the reason for what David Cole is doing now. I presented in my essay, “Semi-Revisionism is Dead” background that would support the inference that David Cole was never really interested in debunking the Holocaust as such. That's never what he wanted to do. Like Yehuda Bauer, he wanted to revise it to keep it alive.
HADDING: That’s my thesis about David Cole.
JIM: Well, he got [???] too. After all that he ended up working for the Holocaust museum, or whatever. Somebody involved with that and he was doing videos for them. According to what David Cole says now. I’m telling you what David Cole said. After he went into hiding, he ended up doing stuff for the opposite cause here, and doing videos and research for the pro-Holocaust people.
HADDING: As Stein?
JIM: Yeah as Stein.
JIM: Yeah, he changed his name. And then, you know, that’s what happened there. I mean, well, you know, what are you going to do? I really don’t care about him. I have no interest. I would like to interview him though and really hit him with, you know, some really tough questions, but I don’t know if that’s ever going to happen, you know. I’m not going to really worry about it.
So ... do you have like a website, do you like, have a blog site or anything like that?
HADDING: Yes, my main blog is The National Socialist Worldview. Its National-Socialist-Worldview.blogspot.com .
JIM: Oh OK. That’s good. So we can go to that and see what’s going on with you. Like you post things there all the time, or something, or keep it up?
HADDING: Yeah. I try to post at least one thing a week but, you know, sometimes it’s only one thing a month. If I get working on something for CODOH it might keep me from posting on my blog for a while.
JIM: Yeah. So explain to me a little bit about CODOH. So you do stuff with them and who is running CODOH now?
HADDING: Germar Rudolf!
JIM: OK. So Germar is running it and how’s that going?
HADDING: It’s a good gig., you know, I wasn’t really, … It pays a little less than the Occidental Observer, but The Occidental Observer won’t publish my stuff anymore. And I get published much more regularly on CODOH than I could on The Occidental Observer. I use this to pay my bills.
JIM: Right, right. Who runs The Occidental Observer?
HADDING: That’s Kevin MacDonald.
JIM: Oh yeah, okay, so he probably wouldn't like, well, you probably don't put much Holocaust stuff on that anyway.
HADDING:You wouldn't be allowed, I wouldn't be allowed to-- I mean, even when they were publishing my stuff, you couldn't-- MacDonald is, seems to be afraid of that subject. So--
JIM: Well, you have to understand that if he takes that topic on he’s going to be dead, just like Irving!
HADDING: Well, he’s retired, so what does he have to lose?
JIM: Oh, is that what it is? Okay, well I can understand that. So, okay, that’s good. So, I mean, I just started going to the CODOH site looking up more things. I mean, that’s a great site. I mean, a lot of information there, you know. We, you know, we’re revisionists, I mean, we have a tremendous amount of information out there, you know, the Holocaust Handbooks. I mean, my goodness. I mean, there’s so much stuff there. The problem is the majority of people out there don’t get to see it because, you know, you can’t get it out there. I mean, you know, you have to look for it deep down in the Internet to find it. But it’s there if people, you know, want to look at it, you know. We can we can definitely look at it.
So, basically, you know, you’re just biding your time, just, you know, writing things as they come. I mean again we, you know, we enjoy what you write. I mean, you’re a good writer. You have a nice style and insight, I would say, about things, and I think that’s important that people see that stuff. I mean, that article you wrote about, you know, the three revisionist, what was it, three revisionist you took up?
HADDING: Yes, “Semi-Revisionism is Dead” is the name of it.
JIM: Yes, that was a super article! That was a great article, you know. So anytime you get something, you know, a new, .. Well you send them my way anyway, so we get what you’re doing now. So that’s important.
Well, anything else you have you like to, … What do you think, what do you think the future is for us? You know, the movement, you know, revisionism, the truth movement and all that?
HADDING: I think, we have some people falling away from Holocaust revisionist right now that maybe hadn’t really thought through their position very well initially. Maybe their commitment wasn’t very deep to begin with. So I wouldn’t worry about that too much. I just worry about what I’m doing and trying to make sure what I’m doing the right thing. And keep doing it. And as long as I can get by and pay my bills and have enough to eat while I’m doing the right thing, that's what I keep doing.
JIM: Right, right. Well, I agree. I’m the same way. You know, I was saying to Diane, I was saying I don’t, I really don’t care what anybody's, even the revisionists' views are! I know common sense! You know what I mean? I can read and I can understand common sense and if someone wants to go back on common sense and go to stupidity and believe things that just can’t happen, I mean, that’s that’s up to them! I just feel sorry for them that they can’t stick it out and do what’s right.
But, well look, I really appreciate that you came on with us today. Again you contribute a lot to the cause! I just want to let you know that, Okay?
HADDING: Thank you very much.
JIM: Yeah, I mean, you’re a good man and, you know, keep continuing on and don’t let anybody discourage you. I know financially, you know, things could be better, but it could be like that for all of us too, I suppose. But the truth is the truth! And no matter what the topic is you’ve got to let people know about it. I don’t care what the consequences are, you’ve got to just let everybody, you know, deal with it and go along with it, you know.
Well look, Hadding, thank you very much for our interview. Good luck with what you’re doing and, you know, another time we’ll probably try to talk to you again when something else comes up that, we know, we can talk about too.
HADDING: All right. Well, thank you very much.
JIM: Alright. Bye now!
* I tried to track down the article by Safire that I mentioned here and it seems to be on the 9th rather than on the 1st of September, and that first article about Halabjah by Safire, as I found it online, does not mention Hitler or Auschwitz. Safire did later (e.g. on 24 August 1990) defend the comparison of Saddam Hussein to Hitler. Professor Stephen C. Pelletiere also has noted, as I noted in 2003, that there was very little attention to what happened at Halabjah on 16 March 1988 until early September. So, the gist of what I say here is correct, although what I said about that particular article in the New York Times, including the date, was a little off.